ON his comment that if President Jonathan did not run, and win in 2015, there would be no Nigeria and that he was coming to the North to help northern Christians who were being persecuted by the Muslims.
In
politics, people take different camps depending on where their
ideologies and principles lie. Nigeria is a conglomerate of many nations
and in this conglomerate, I happen to be an Ijaw man. Goodluck Jonathan
is also an Ijaw man like me.Whether you like it or not, when you go to London, if you see somebody speaking your language, you will be more attracted to the man speaking your language than the one who does not speak your language. You will feel more secured and safer by associating with the man who speaks your language than the man who doesn’t. This is natural and that is the way God has made it.
Coming to the fact that Dokubo-Asari is coming to assist Christians against Muslims, I don’t think there is any truth in that because Dokubo-Asari is a Muslim.
I ’ve been a Muslim for 25 years and since I became a Muslim on the 17th of September 1988, my children are Muslims; there are many associates of mine from my own home, Ijaw land, who are Muslims, and who also, because of my being a Muslim, were attracted to Islam and are even better Muslims than myself. So, there is no truth whatsoever (in it).
But there are collaborative abilities among most people, whether they are Muslims or Christians; these collaborative abilities cannot be wished away. This is a small world and a very globalised world in that you associate with people from all sorts of opinion.
How were you converted into Islam?
I was born into an environment that I would say was a Christian environment. I was born into a family (of Christians). My mother was a Baptist; my father’s parents were Anglican. At that time, my dad was not close to spiritual activities, in fact, until he died.
In fact, I had a spiritual threat, which led me into becoming a born-again Christian. I was baptized in Deeper Life in 1980, and I continued to research but I was not satisfied.
So, during the course of the Iranian revolution, I started reading about Islam, the British Encyclopedia Britannica and so on. I started reading Islam and I found out that Islam was the best decision I could take to worship my God and to get close to my God.
And for the past 25 years, I don’t have any regret but I’ve several challenges. But it has kept me on. Allah has shown me that being alone (He is with me).
Why were you arrested in Benin Republic?
I was arrested at the Republic of Benin. Some people thought my university would close their university. They said I’m an English-speaking person and my schools are doing very well. They are tri-lingual: English, French and Arabic and so many people are getting attracted.
So, they reported (me) and so on. With the way they had planned it, there was no way that I could be released. They carried (took) my visa; my businesses were closed down (on the allegation) that I am the founder of Boko Haram.
Those were the charges that they gave to me: that I am the founder of Boko Haram; that I built some mosques in Benin Republic; that why should I be building mosques in my schools? They closed down the mosques.
I was left incommunicado; all my staff (members) were arrested. That showed how faithful Allah has been to me. I’ve been to many tight corners, and without Allah, I wouldn’t have come out.
Are these people (students) Nigerians or Beninoise?
There are many who have taken advantages. Like 99 per cent of students are from English-speaking countries; 90 per cent are Nigerians. And somebody, who is from an English-speaking country, the challenges will be very enormous for them. May be some of the students going to their schools will not go.
And the speed with which we got the license to open our university — it takes about five years — but it took us one year to get our license because of the activities that were in place. We are second to none.
It revealed that by doing that, we would run other people out of business. We don’t know who they are because it is wrong to ascribe but from the question, all the security services in Benin, everybody was involved. Because from the questions that I were asked, all led to one area — that it is because of the university.
What informed your decision to open the university in Benin instead of Nigeria?
One needs a good business environment and the type of business you want to do. My schools are bi-lingual schools. Apart from nursery, primary and secondary schools, which are almost lingual Arabic, English and French; all my other institutions are bi-lingual.
And when you have an institution that is bi-lingual, you have to go to an environment that is less influential in one language. For instance, if I open the school in Nigeria, I will lean towards English and the French content of the programme will not be well taken care of.
So, it was better for me to go to a French environment, to open the schools so that my aspiration for the schools will be realised. My aspiration was to make the school a bi-lingual school and that has been working. It’s an experiment.
In Nigeria, there are lots of universities, but my university is different. The sort of courses we do, my students, even from the secondary schools or university, are self-reliant; they don’t need to look for work after leaving school because they are equipped in different aspects of life.
Some people in Nigeria said that you were arrested because your presence in the country might affect voting in 2015, and that you were brought back to Nigeria in a presidential jet…
I don’t think that is true because I am speaking to you from Cotonou. So, the story of the presidential jet is in the figment of the imagination of those who are saying it.
I will be coming back to Nigeria today because I will be made the District Head of my place, for the final ceremony.
But there is the possibility that the hands of politicians might be there because of my position in support of (President) Goodluck (Jonathan), because so many people are desperate. They are not trying to take power on behalf of the people, but to fill their pockets and fill their stomachs. For that, they can kill; they can go to any length in getting power.
So, I will not be surprised if political interest was brought to bear (on my arrest). But I Alhamdulillah, as Allah said in the Qur’an, for every difficulty, there is a relief.
Today, I’ve been quietly staying in the Republic of Benin; I did not have much contact with government officials.
But with my arrest, from the President (Boni Yayi) down, I have had contact with them. I have had contact with the President, with all the relevant ministers. Everybody was at the cell to release me; they accorded me all the niceties that hitherto I was not enjoying.
Now, I have official police protection from the Benin Republic, and free of charge. They know there is a rich man in this country, who is not just an ordinary person.
I was going to the clinic to pick my baby. I was very busy when my car was stopped. The next thing I saw, I was whisked away.
I was hopeless when I was in the cell. I was standing for 24 hours. I was chained to the bar and did not sit down for 24 hours. I was praying to Allah because Allah delivered Jonah from the belly of the whale.
I have 194 students on my scholarship in secondary school, 52 people on my scholarship in higher institution. I said, ‘if I am doing it genuinely for you, oh Allah, deliver me from this problem that I have found myself.’
The period I was in detention, they did not allow me to go (anywhere). So, if I wanted to urinate, I did that inside my cell. It was a hopeless situation.
Between 10 o’clock in the morning when they opened the door and removed the handcuff, the first thing I said was Alhamdulillah. This is because it was so hopeless; all the people who came to see me — all my staff — were all arrested.
What they wanted was that I should be totally incommunicado so that nobody would tell the outside world that I had been arrested or been kept anywhere. But in all that, Allah found a way for me and bailed me out.
So, this is sad. I have been arrested over 70 times.
Did you actually say that if there was no Jonathan as President in 2015, there would be no Nigeria, and blood would flow?
Yes, I did say so and it’s a reaction to what other people had said. Our elder statesman, former governor of old Kaduna State, said that if Jonathan became head of state, the polity would become ungovernable; even if he succeeded, he would not be allowed to rule.
And we are seeing activities that are going on — that are pointing to that fact. I may not be as close to Jonathan as some people think I am; that is the truth of the matter.
A lot of people think I’m close to Jonathan, maybe I am, but I may not be as close as people think I am, because it is very difficult to be my friend.
But some people said you are doing the President more damage than good (with your utterances)…
That is left for the President to decide. I am not doing it for Goodluck Jonathan; I’m doing it because of a struggle I started. Goodluck Jonathan just appeared on the scene; he is not why we started our struggle. So, because of Goodluck Jonathan, we would not stop our struggle; we will continue our struggle.
If in the course of our struggle, it outlaws Jonathan or has some advantages for him, it is okay. We would not say because it brings some advantages or disadvantages to him, we would abandon our struggle; we will continue with our struggle.
If a man threatens me or threatens my brother, it is for me to tell him that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. But you cannot threaten my brother and expect me to fold my hands and look at you.
But Dokubo-Asari cannot hurt anybody. In my school today, majority of my students are from the North of Nigeria. Majority of my scholarship students, I took them to Hajj; they call me daddy.
In fact, some of them, with their fathers call me big daddy. If I call any of their fathers, for instance, if we want to do something, they will say, “Wallahi, they are your children; why are you calling us to ask questions about what you are doing with your children?”
So, I have children from Zamfara State, from Kano State, from Kebbi State, from Plateau State, and from Kwara State who are on my scholarship.
Is it true that you are married to a northerner?
I have been married to a northerner. Currently, my wife is from Borno State. I had a wife from Borno State before and I’m also married to a northerner.
If I hate the North, I will not have over 20 children from the North on my scholarship. In my house where I stay in Abuja, the Imam is from Zamfara State. I picked (took care of) five of his children for the past five years. I’m trying to send one of them to the university now.
The Imam of my community, Musa, is from Nasarawa State. One of my managers is from Kaduna State, from Zaria.
How is the maritime security business going?
I don’t have the maritime security job with government; maybe there is a mistake. It is Tompolo (Government Ekpemupolo) doing the maritime security business with NIMASA. So, I’m not involved in it at all.
What do you have to say on the national confab?
In a situation where you don’t make decision by yourself, as events come, you tackle them as they come because, if we were to take decisions by ourselves, we would have preferred a conference before elections (in 2015).
But the conference is not sovereign. When we go to the conference, we will go with our agenda, the agenda that we stand by. We want a Sovereign National Conference, not a national conference.
If we boycott the conference, we will not succeed. So, we would go to the conference even if we have issues on the conference, on nomenclature because the conference should be totally sovereign. Everything should be put on the table.
All of us are preparing to go to the conference. I have started preparing to go to the conference. When Obasanjo wanted me to go to the (National Constitutional) conference, I did not go. If I had known, I would have gone.
But now, this one, we are all ready to go to the conference and we believe our input would go a long way in shaping the decision of the conference. This conference will actually lead to a sovereign national conference.
What are the things you would love to secure through the conference?
What we want to secure at the conference is very clear: that the people should decide on what they would want to be. If Ijaw people want to be in Nigeria, there should be a memorandum; that’s the ultimate.
(Former Ghanaian President Kwame) Nkrumah said, “Seek ye the political kingdom and all other things would be added on to you.”
We are going there with a political agenda; the political agenda is that we are seeking political kingdom, which is that all peoples, from 1893, the kingdom from old Calabar… this treaty is the only one binding on us. All other treaties are not binding.
The singular demand we are seeking at the conference is simple: Our people, having signed treaties with the British government, now want that these treaties should be validated and we should be allowed to go our separate ways and form a separate country.
People who decide can form union and become one country like Europe coming together.
All of us are preparing to go to the conference. I have started preparing to go to the conference. When Obasanjo wanted me to go to the (National Constitutional) conference, I did not go. If I had known, I would have gone. But now, this one, we are all ready to go to the conference and we believe our input would go a long way in shaping the decision of the conference. This conference will actually lead to a sovereign national conference.
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